Thunder-Lizard.Com: How did the lineup change over the years?

Taylor: Lets start with the mother-load, the revolving door… the bass players.

Guitarists

Drummers:

Vocals:

Thunder-Lizard.Com: What was your relationship with Jade Tree's only other old hardcore band, Turning Point? Are there any stories about the good old days?

Taylor: We had a great relationship with Turning Point. The first time we played with them was in Bethlehem, PA, the weekend we recorded our first 7”. Turning Point was a 5-piece then and just tore up the stage when they played. When we recorded “Culture Shock” we all stayed at Skip's house (he sings a song live on that album). Skip would come down and hang out in Richmond with us and we'd go up there. I actually went up for their last show in Philly. That was the last time I ever saw Skip. I guess everyone knows the general direction his life took after that, so I won't get into it. However, I will say he was a genuinely great guy, and its sad the route his life took. I wish there was something I could have done as I'm sure others who knew him wish that they could have also. Maybe I'm lucky, in a way, that I never saw him after TP broke up because now my memories will always be positive.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: 4 Walls was always very outspoken and took a stance on several issues. What were you most concerned with in the beginning and how did that evolve and change over the years?

Taylor: I guess actually in the beginning lyrically, I was trying to mix it up. Our first recorded song, “Self Confidence”, was pretty much just a generic “posi-youth” song (written very badly). It appeared on Complete Death III, one of the most completely awful coops ever. I guess after awhile it became quite evident (to me at least) that the political side of the mix was really the only lyrics I liked writing. I believe its pretty clear from a discography standpoint. As far as politics go, in the beginning, it was more about the power of the haves and desperation of the have-nots. I was reading a lot about African American struggle: Malcolm X. Fredrick Douglas, the Black Panthers, etc. Though I think as far as politics go Iran-Contra and the dark history of American foreign policy in Latin America lit the fuse, so to speak. From there, Public Enemy kind of brought African American struggle to me front and center. As time went on, our politics kind of grew into a broader reaching way. I realized there were so many issues to be discussed and I was not going to be one of these people “nailed” to a singular issue at the expense of other issues, as I write about in Tightwire and Food for Worms. So we wrote about many political and social topics, about the culmination of abusive power and the breakdown of systems (Burn It!, Punish the Machine, etc) to more singular issues, whether it is the corporate media, women's reproductive rights, religious extremism, or greed.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Was there any cause in particular that you felt defined the band?

Taylor: For a while, for the last couple of years, we seemed to become the “pro-choice” hardcore band with some people as sort of a band to stand behind in the midst of all the hard-line lunacy. I never felt completely comfortable with that, as there were no women in our band. Nevertheless, I was happy to voice my opinion about it. I was a security guard/escort for Planned Parenthood at the time, so I got a shit-load of stickers and we stuck them all over ourselves one time when we played in Syracuse. But generally we did not want to get corralled into a single issue, we always tried to keep things fresh, and like it or not, I think we did.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Politics has always been a staple in punk music but hardcore tends to skirt many of the issues. I can honestly say that none of the hardcore records I've purchased in the last 5 years had any significant political message. Maybe I'm just buying the wrong records, but I can't help but see this as a trend. Do you think politics should have more of a place in hardcore?

Taylor: Yes and no. A band should not make an ass out of itself trying to tackle issues they know nothing about, no matter what their opinion is. As a 39 year old who got into HC/Punk during the early years of the Reagan administration and witnessed the ground swell in the scene against that admin., I do find it discomforting, the seemingly indifference, currently. As bad as the Reagan administration was, the W. administration is even worse. If you can't get riled up about the current state of affairs, maybe you should be touring with Ashlee Simpson. Then again, if you cannot accurately express your views in a song, then of course its better to express whatever you can the best way you can. Essentially, everyone has to figure it out for themselves. I am certainly no expert on today's hardcore. Maybe things are so fucked up politically that HC is an escape from it, in other words, maybe the kids are involved, but not through HC. Maybe hardcore has just become watered down, a shell of what it used to be. Maybe the HC/punk scene has become so divided that HC kids don't want to be associated with the part of the scene that “smells bad” like gangster rap of the late ‘80s. Maybe the current crop of HC is just reflecting the mundane, apathetic personality of white bread , suburban, middle class America…but I really have no idea what I'm talking about.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: How do you feel about the current state of hardcore? Listen to any new stuff? I hate to ask this tired old question but it seems appropriate, what's in your CD player right now?

Taylor: I really don't think I am in any position to judge today's hardcore scene. I'll leave that up to the younger, more involved people. As far as bands, I haven't heard a lot. Some I like are Charge, Strike Anywhere, Only Crime, Triple Threat, Cast Aside, Desperate Measures, One Up, a lot of the stuff on Livewire Records.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Back to band history, what was your first show, and how did it go?

Taylor: First show was in July of '87 with 7-seconds & Justice League. It went okay. I mean, 7-Seconds and Justice League were really good. I guess we were okay. We had fun.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Sounds like an awesome first show. What was the first tour you guys ever did?

Taylor: First tour for more than a weekend was the U.S. in 1992. As far as how it went…well we made it back alive…it was fun, but a fiasco. We had it rent a van from the sister of a manager from the health food store I worked at. It looked like the Mystery Machince from Scooby Doo. It was a manual with the shifter in the steering column, it didn't go into 2 nd , so we would coast down off-ramps. Some shows were good, some bad, but there were always at least a few cool people. Lawrence, Kansas sucked, it was in some feed building in a cornfield. We show up and there are skinheads with automatic rifles. We almost left, but the promoter assured us they were leaving to “hunt” the Nazis. It was still scary though. The show sucked, dude tried to pay us in beer (flyer said “Bring a 6pack, get in free” so do the math). That would have been fine, if we had had some Magic Bus that would run of beer. In the end, we smash up the stage, Encounter stole some mics, bad Clutch who stayed around for some reason got held up at gunpoint. It was a wacky tour from having the California shows cancelled to staying 6 days with chump change to our names in Rapid City, SD. Sleeping under hand dryers in Wyoming rest stop to stay warm. It was crazy, but looking back, fun.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Over the years, the band recorded several records. What was you personal favorite recording?

Taylor: As far as production and lyrics it would be “Food for Worms” easily. As far as music, depends on my mood, but by far the worst is the song on the Complete Death III comp. I've had a hard time listening to stuff I'm on though, its so weird to hear yourself.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Favorite song and lyrics?

Taylor: Wow? “Self Confidence” & “Back on Top”…just kidding, I hate those lyrics. “Greed” because it was my first real attempt, politically, at songwriting. “Bibles and Guns” to me also flows really well. Recently, I went back and listened to “Food for Worms” and was really happy with the lyrics from “Mr. Universe”.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Were there any records you recorded that you could have lived without? Any music related choices you regret?

Taylor: No, I don't have any records I don't like. I wish I had written different lyrics for “Back on Top”, maybe some lines in some other songs could have been better. I wish more people at the time could have understood the song “Temple”.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Towards the end the band was extremely different than it was in the beginning. What caused the music changes and what effect did they have on the fans?

Taylor: We always did what we wanted. If people like it, cool, if not, fine. We just didn't want to put out the same record over and over again. I guess different members left different imprints. I think all the records went over fairly well, except “Food for Worms” in some circles. Some more traditionalists didn't like the music…that's cool. I do remember reading a review in a Krishna-Core zine about the “Punish the Machine” 7” where the reviewer didn't like the lyrics. There was a song about the abuse of power, a song that was sort of in you face pro choice, and a song against religious fanaticism. Yeah, I could see why a religious fanatic would have a hard time with that record…reading that review was one of my proudest moments.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Not only did the music change, I hear the stage show got a little crazy toward the end…could you elaborate?

Taylor: Yeah, I for one was trying to get back to my roots, embracing, you know, the early 80s when hardcore and punk was all wrapped up together. I guess this was more of a reaction to divisions of hardcore from punk. Hardcore was becoming something that I was not relating to anymore, as was punk. I wasn't having it. So I was trying to drag punk and HC, kicking and screaming, back together. So I guess that materialized in different ways, one being our stage show becoming somewhat out there…things like wearing night gowns, being naked, having face makeup like Kiss or King Diamond, breaking bottles over my head, spitting ketchup on the audience, tearing up the stage, etc….and doing all of this completely sober. It was a lot of fun….we were nearing the end, and just decided to let it all fly, so to speak.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: As your records crawl deeper into history, how would you like people to remember 4WF?

Taylor: More than anything, as a strange grouping of individuals who came together and put it all out there, on display, kept it real, always gave 110% whether there were 1000 people in the audience or 10. I want people to remember us as a good example of hardcore and punk, not as a musical style, but more as an attitude, set of ethics, and way of life. We met so many people who touched our band in so many positive ways, we just hoped we were able to reflect back on them how good they made us feel. Then again, if they sucked….we hope we pissed them off.

Thunder-Lizard.Com: I'm sure there are stories I haven't been able to unearth here…any other gems you can share with us?

There are so many people we connected with, at least as far as our feelings on the matter. Too many to thank, but we were nothing without them, and this movement and this community. It was always like one big happy family for us…all rocking, moshing, conversing, and sharing together. Keep it that way!

Thunder-Lizard.Com: Thanks a ton Taylor, best wishes!